Avatar:

E: Not my problem any more. Good luck all.

Thanks, Moose.

I guess others see differently:



RIP Dusty 2k17.

I really didn't want to get involved in this post but seeing as you've made that decision for me, I will  

Spoiler:

Full screenshot above for context

I don't think that your problem is with being temp ranked - because you've been temp'd plenty over the past few weeks, more than anybody else. And (personally) each time you've asked me, I have given it to you, because there was no reason not to.
I don't think you're particularly concerned with others here either - it's 'I wouldn't do this', 'I deserve this'.

Quite frankly I think you just want a permanent rank yourself, and this isn't the way to go about it.

Yes, we should award [permanent] admin more often to those who are deserving of it, and yes, the people who obtain it should utilise the avatar privilege more. That does not mean that everyone who wants it should get it by default.
Kicking up drama and causing a fuss isn't going to get you what you want and change the way we select people deserving of the admin rank just for you. If having the avatar is such a huge deal to you, perhaps find a clan suitable to your needs?

And as it stands, you're being temp'd almost all of the time you ask for it, which I don't consider a bad position to be in.
Hopefully the clan rework comes sooner rather than later and we can be rid of these problems!

I don't want to be involved in this headache, but those are my immediate thoughts.

Why do you feel entitled to an avatar? This is all getting boring now. I never get ava because I can't be arsed and usually there is someone else out with one anyway.

Or how about we give everyone admin. Yehh let's do that. Nobody has to do anything, nobody has to get an ava out if they don't want to and usually people get temped when they want so what is the issue. If you want a clan that has an ava out 24/7 then go bloody find one. Tired of people being whiny little bitches about it.

Sorry I'm so blunt but that's how I feel, clearly you aren't happy so go elsewhere.

Olmara wrote:

Quite frankly I think you just want a permanent rank yourself, and this isn't the way to go about it.

1. No, I do not want "a permanent rank" for myself.
2. That's not what I want, so please don't assume that.

3. Maybe I'm not as rich as you are but 24M is a lot to me, and if I can make that saving by getting out an avatar (that, wait...NO ONE is/was using) -- I'll surely ask.
Is that so much of a problem? Apparently so.

Olmara wrote:

Yes, we should award [permanent] admin more often to those who are deserving of it, and yes, the people who obtain it should utilise the avatar privilege more. That does not mean that everyone who wants it should get it by default.

1. You have to admit..."most" or the "majority" of admins are either: inactive, "can't be arsed to take it out", or simply just don't play...yet everyone complains when I "whine for it" ...sorry for being so active and actually wanting to y'know, use the clan avatar of the T7 Citadel.

2. You're right, people should not get it by default...or you would have newly recruits running around with it as well. That wouldn't be that great at all, now would it?

3. I'm pretty sure you know as well as I do, after the GMTers or people who get on more before reset go to bed....there would be 0 avatars out for basically the rest of the night. The only person who really stood out and got out avatars ..maybe after reset wave for Warbands, or when this person wanted to just AFK and do something was Marko. You didn't even have to ask, he just got one out and did his thing. Many people thanked him for that cause he was the only one "who could be arsed" to get it out consistently for others.

Olmara wrote:

Kicking up drama and causing a fuss isn't going to get you what you want and change the way we select people deserving of the admin rank just for you. If having the avatar is such a huge deal to you, perhaps find a clan suitable to your needs?

And as it stands, you're being temp'd almost all of the time you ask for it, which I don't consider a bad position to be in.

1. I didn't mean to kick up any drama and it all could have been solved within minutes as when I first asked... it was 1:30AM (my time) barely any ranks on and I was going to continue crafting. Have I even? Nah. 4:00AM passes on, instead of me crafting...here I am arguing with you all and I could have been half done, by then...but   gains - amirite?

Birch wrote:

Why do you feel entitled to an avatar? This is all getting boring now. I never get ava because I can't be arsed and usually there is someone else out with one anyway.

1. I don't "feel entitled", I simply asked for temporary again, since there were 0 out and it was 1:30AM in the morning with 0 ranks on. I know you don't get avatar. The one time you did and then 20mins later dismissed it, said: "You can all go back to whining now" or something along the lines of that. I wonder if half ...sorry, a quarter of the clan bothers to buff for avatar, since they're so rarely used past GMT hours/reset.

Birch wrote:

Or how about we give everyone admin. Yehh let's do that. Nobody has to do anything, nobody has to get an ava out if they don't want to and usually people get temped when they want so what is the issue. If you want a clan that has an ava out 24/7 then go bloody find one.

1.

Sf Brave wrote:

Yes, I know you can say:
"It's not the admins+ rank responsibility to take one out",
"It's not in their job description that there must always be one out"
"Don't beg/complain for an avatar"
-- I've heard it all before.

2. Giving everyone admin would not solve any problems.
It would just create more. You know that as well as I do, but then again: "You can't be arsed", so maybe my expectations are too high for a clan of 480 people with 3 Clan Avatars (which we can't even use as a feature to recruit people  ).

3. There was no reason...really...to not temp me (for a few hours) to go and get Dusty.
After I cut the dstones I would have asked a rank online to just put me back to General. Easy as pie...or so I thought.

Since there's no suggestion being made, or any actual feedback outside of piecemeal rants, I've moved this thread from Suggestions/Feedback to Complaints/Rants where it's a better fit.

Conc Blast wrote:

Since there's no suggestion being made, or any actual feedback outside of piecemeal rants, I've moved this thread from Suggestions/Feedback to Complaints/Rants where it's a better fit.

If you bothered to read...any of it, there was one specific suggestion:

PrimalMoose wrote:

It would just be easier if we could just be relaxed about it.

Give temp rank to someone if no avatars are out, they use it until whenever and then dismiss whenever. People are looking at the CC all the time - someone is bound to notice that person X has been given temp ava, and a quick look at the noticeboard would say that they don't have an avatar any more, at which point they could be deranked. Just make it something that everyone chips into checking, rather than making it a job for a specific person/people.

That is all.

Apparently this suggestion causes so much frustration and blood-boiling anger, so not sure how you can word any other suggestion with that much fairness a different way.

Quote :

Apparently this suggestion causes so much frustration and blood-boiling anger, so not sure how you can word any other suggestion with that much fairness a different way.

No one has a problem with giving temp ranks out, you have to understand this, its just the snarky, sneaky way you go about it and the back stabbing comments you make to anyone who will listen that makes people not want to temp you or see you get temp admin.

Several examples I have seen over the past week or so, you never ask in the cc directly you always pm an organiser, probably so no one can dispute or claim otherwise about avas not being out, like if an admin were about to get one out you wouldnt get temp rank right, makes you seem sneaky.

The constant snarky comments about you being the only one to get ava out when you have the temp rank that we see just about every day is really getting on peoples nerves.

The way you take screenshots out of context aka the one with Olmara last night just to try and make you seem like a victim without the whole story, sneaky.

You constantly state that you want inactive admins de-ranked, what good would that do to anyone? They log back in they will instantly get ranked back up again just like what happened with Harmless. Then all of a sudden you have a surplus of admins because you need other people to fill the empty spots. You do want an admin rank your argument fools nobody so stop pretending you dont.

The situation with you getting de-ranked last night was because I asked PrimalMoose to do it. You lied to him and told him that there was no avatars out and he didnt bother to check, even though I had an avatar out on world 73 for atleast 2 hours. When he noticed after I told him you didnt even have an avatar out so he de-ranked you on the spot. Very manipulative. You just want the avatar for yourself on your world, even if the avatar is out on a different world it doesnt suit you because its not where you want it to be.

Honestly getting sick of seeing posts like this popping up.

Quote :

I know you don't get avatar. The one time you did and then 20mins later dismissed it, said: "You can all go back to whining now" or something along the lines of that.

Almost like I'm never sarcastic. IIRC that was a time when I got called out last minute but it was so long ago I don't remember and could be wrong. Nonetheless, if someone asks for ava and I'm available to get it 9 times out of 10 I'll get one but like I said, more often than not someone else already has one (usually olmy since we're on at similar times).

You say you don't feel entitled but that's what the post is coming across as. It's boiling down to "Admins get avas more often so other people can benefit and make people temp more often." You can argue against that however you want but that's how it's reading.

Quote :

I don't "feel entitled", I simply asked for temporary again, since there were 0 out and it was 1:30AM in the morning with 0 ranks on

Well how do you expect to get temp'd if there are no ranks on to temp you?

I think the bigger underlying issue is more so that the clan system needs a bloody overhaul in terms of ranks and permissions.

Tbh derank Snook. Useless admin, can't even get avatar out

OK this post is all over the place so I'm just going to address some of your points.  Apologies if I didn't get to all of them.

Inactives - You know as well as everyone else that ranks are kept even if they're inactive.  One thing to note is that they are not reserved spots (IE we only allow 50 avatar wardens), so kicking those that are inactive does nothing in terms of ranking up more players.  Plain and simple, once you earn your rank you keep it (unless it's decided otherwise by the Generals, which has only happened a handful of times).  For whatever reason you seem to have a hardon for removing those who are inactive when that's just not our M.O.

Admin+ without Avatar - Please show me where in this post it says Admins are obligated to even have an avatar out:

Barca wrote:

Lieutenant (Admin)
– Lieutenants are our knowledgeable and friendly players that are active in our FC and CC. Whenever these players are logged in, they are actively participating in these chats to keep them positive and constructive. These players are all knowledgeable in quests, monsters, and skills; really anything in the game. These players also help us by bumping our thread to bring it to page 1 where other players can find us. Bump only once per 10-15 minutes to keep the FMods happy. On top of this, these players spread the word about our chat to other players in game to keep our community thriving. The more people we have, the more interesting the Nest will become for all of our members. Additionally, these ranks have access to our Avatars.
Note to Admins: If you summon an Avatar, please shout out your world and location from time to time in the CC, and be sure to dismiss it when you’re done!
If you haven’t received the Avatar Warden yet and you are a Lieutenant, contact a General and we’ll be more than happy to fix that.

Temp Admin Ranks - These should be treated as privaledges, and you should be humble if you get it.  If it is taken away from you then you shouldn't be too mad about it since you did not "earn" it the same way the other permanent Admins did.  If you do deserve it, then the Gemerals will know and make that decision.  That's as simple as it gets.  However, if you proceed to be a Gan_real to clanmates and Admin+, you shouldn't ever expect to get it again.  Call it favoritism if that's what'll make you sleep at night, but the fact is nobody wants to give someone who's ungrateful something they do not deserve.

Citadel - We actually do not struggle to meet upkeep often (it takes 7 people to cap to meet upkeep).  In fact in the past few years I can only think of a handful of times we've run into trouble there, so IMO this is a complete non issue.  In the situations we are struggling for it, we have more than enough people who can and are willing to pitch in to get it.  This ties into the point of having a T7 citadel, right now you might see it as only a house for avatars, but to a lot of our clanmates it's an accomplishment that we achieved collectively that not many other clans can reach and keep.  In my opinion it's horrible that you boil it down to just that, when many of the people you have called out are the reason why you even have a T7 citadel in the first place.  The whole point of the citadel is to have some kind of group project and working on it together to reach the furthest limits you could.  You were not there for the 3 year grind from T1 to T7+dragon, and honestly you shouldn't even speak when it comes to the citadel, which for the record you do not even help to maintain ( https://puu.sh/vxHqf.png ).  But whatever, you can sit up on your high horse as much as you want and tell us what the Citadel is used for, just realize that the only reason you are able to be where you are is because of the effort the rest of the clan has put in.  Learn your place.

Favoritism - Disclaimer that TeamSpeak/Discord/Warbands/etc is a much more relaxed environment, where the ranks there may not correspond to the clan ranks (and it's probably a good thing it doesn't) but more towards the person's usage of that platform.  For reference, here's how I see how all the chats correlate to each other: http://puu.sh/vxITz.png.  This shows how much each chat/community relates to each other and how much the ranks overlap between each chat.  The areas where there is no overlap is the amount of difference each chat (either in community or in ranks) has from each other.  Some of the overlaps might not be 100% correct but it gets the point across I think.  For instance, the SN FC ranks and SN CC ranks correlate almost 100%, meaning the ranks, community, and users of the chat are very often part of the community in the FC.  Additionally, you can see that there's not much overlap between the SN Warbands ranks and the SN FC.  However both TS does overlap quite heavily into all 3 with only a couple outliers.  These differences are not due to favoritism, it's due to a different level of interaction each person brings to that platform.  That is not favoritism, that is just pragmatic ranking.  But let's move onto another part which you specify as "activities".  We've never tried to exclude people from our official events, again that is not our M.O.  If you can find an instance of this please show me and I'd be interested in hearing about it and perhaps dealing out some reprocussions.  However, I have a hunch that you are talking about how you've been excluded from the raid group that both Conc and I maintain currently.  Just because it's us running it doesn't mean it's governed by the Clan/FC, it happens to be 2 high ranking officials from the clan but that should be taken to mean that it needs to be governed by the same rules the FC/CC are.  It might be known colloquially as "The Slayer Nest Team" but again it doesn't need to abide by the same rules the FC/CC are.  Regardless, much of the team is sick and tired of your piss poor attitude when you do not get your way, and upon seeing your performance (https://puu.sh/vnIDC.png) we decided it was better for everyone to not bring you along.  If either of those two things were different (decent attitude but not great DPS, or Merondonononononononon attitude but great DPS), maybe we'd let you tag along.  Regardless, we shouldn't be your only option out there.  I'd reccomend you to search out teams in either Boss School, Cursed Combatants, or Raid FC.

Favoritism (avatar ranks & ranking in general) - In general, yes ranking is somewhat based on favoritism, but is not determined by it.  Let me explain the process (some of this is "unofficial" but it's what I see happening):
1.  player A joins the clan.
2.  General/Org/Admin notices player A meets the standard they set for General/Org/Admin. - This is where the favoritism does come into play.  Players that are in frequent contact with other ranks are generally more likely to be reccomended to be ranked up.
3.  General recommends the player to be ranked up.  If it's an Org/Admin they reccomend the player to a General, to which the General has full discretion in terms of actually recommending the player to be ranked up.
4.  Other Generals comment on said player, discuss the pros and cons of ranking said player up.  The conversation mostly revolves around whether or not the player is a boon to our community, a long standing member, a member we can see a potential future in, if there's been any drama that they've instagated, whether or not they meet specific requirements we've persoanlly set out for what we want (EX: I look for Organizers with a different perspective from the other generals when looking for a new general, among other things) and if they generally set a good example for what we want to see in someone.
5.  After a bit of discussion generals vote on each player with a simple Yes/No/Abstain system, and votes are tallied.
6.  After some time to vote the players are then either ranked up or not ranked up according to the vote tallies.
7.  One of the generals logs in and ranks up said players on both the Slayer Nest account and in the Clan Chat.

I would personally argue that while step 2 is favoritism/connection driven, steps 3-6 balance it out due to the fact we've got a diverse group of Generals with differing opinions on a wide range of topics.  I'm confident that this system is probably the best one for the community we're trying to build and maintain, and has served us right for the past 9+ years.

Now as far as giving out Temp Admin Ranks, most everyone who's been around the block knows that there are no hard and fast rules in terms of gaining it and having it be revoked.  This is because we often leave it up an Organizer's/General's discretion to judge whether or not the player is trustworthy/not going to be a problem if they do get it (because they'll hear about it on the back end, believe me).  Discretion could be seen as favoritism and on an individual level it absolutely is, but the flip side of that is that I would not like it if an Organizer/General gave a temp admin rank to a player that is relatively new or has no real ties to the clan due ot the damage they can cause (it's unacceptable to risk having players leave or get kicked because of faulty judgement on the part of 1 rank, and I think most everyone agrees when it comes to that).  I am personally still looking into whether or not I can construct a fair system that only allows a few different people access to "Temporary Avatar Ranks" but I'm still unsure if it's worthwhile.

Olmy's Thread - realize that generals did not really comment on it (I didn't personally, and probably should have looking back at it, my bad Olmy).  However the generals did open up a thread when it was first posted and didn't really reach any kind of concensus.  Also, you just cherry picked parts from that thread to make it look like those people were 100% agreeing with you when it isn't exactly that simple when you actually read the thread.

So as far as a TL;DR goes:
1.  Inactives earned their rank and removing them will not give you their rank in their place.
2.  Admin+ are not required to hold avatars even if requested.
3.  Temp admin ranks are not a right, they are a privaledge and should be treated as such.
4.  Citadel isn't just an Avatar house, it's a trophy the clan earned for many years of hard work.
5.  Favoritism does exist in some instances, but is for the most part mitigated when it comes to rank ups.  Activities that are not official Slayer Nest events are outside of the jurisdiction of our Administration (even if it does involve people that are in the administration) and should not be held to the same standard we hold for the SN FC/CC/Events.
6.  Temp Admin Ranks are a product based on your own connections with another high rank, meaning they're inherently based on favoritism (also meaning you've benefitied from favoritism!  Shocker!)

P.S. http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=snx2DnjgHbw/forums.ws?16,17,827,65870879 - This is still in the works (delayed, but still at least a glimmer of light)
P.S.S. Why would we even think to lock this thread?  That's not productive at all.  Literally all that would do is cause more drama than just responding to you/ignoring you

Hopalong wrote:

5.  After a bit of discussion generals vote on each player with a simple Yes/No/Abstain system, and votes are tallied.

well, there goes my chances.
Brews4Owner
Olmara4VicePres
Alvis4Admin
Sanjan4Organiser

Sf Babe if you spent this time killing lesser and greater demons instead of this post you'd be max combat by now, since you haven't though i'm going to ask that Hopalong takes my admin rank away and gives it to you.

PKS was never the same when we lost the max combat rcb wonder that you were, hope this helps.

Marko wrote:

Sf Babe if you spent this time killing lesser and greater demons instead of this post you'd be max combat by now, since you haven't though i'm going to ask that Hopalong takes my admin rank away and gives it to you.

PKS was never the same when we lost the max combat rcb wonder that you were, hope this helps.

I missed you dearly

Actually left this clan for similar reasons, along with 3 other people 2+ years ago, crap never changes.