NEW CLAN CHAT RANKS - PLEASE READ

Hey everybody, I've got some really exciting news.  For a while now, we've kept the Sergeant-General ranks clear and only used to denote inactive people who are of that same rank in the FC.  After some discussion with the Captains and the Generals, we decided it would be best to open it up to some of our more distinguished members who aren't currently ranked.  Thus, we've devised a new ranking system based on points that are given for people who actively participate in the clan.  
A couple things to note:

• These ranks ARE NOT equivalent to the Lieutenant - General Ranks in the FC.  Rank ups to Admin, Organizer, and Deputy Owner will all be done based on a merit system as it's always been.
  
• This ranking system will be rolled out in 2 "phases".  Right now I only intend on dealing with the XP side of the ranks, but at the top of the year we'll start tracking points from event participation/hosting.
  
• Remember that the Generals (Deputy Owners & Owner) reserve the right to remove your rank due to misconduct or representing us in a fashion that's not conducive to what we stand for.
  
• The following ways of gaining points is not an exhaustive list, this is only what we'll try for the moment and then possibly expand it out in the future.
  
  So without further ado, here's how it works:
  
  Point-Rank Cutoffs:
  
  
  
  1. 93 points - General
     
  2. 41 points - Captain
     
  3. 21 points - Lieutenant
     
  4. 6 points - Sergeant
     
  
  There is no maximum number of points you can earn each month.
  
  How to gain points from gaining XP:
  
  
  
  • 1 point = Every 7.5M Clan XP
    
  
  There is no maximum number of points you can earn from XP each month.
  
  How to gain points from Events:
  You can earn up to a MAXIMUM OF 5 POINTS FROM EVENTS EACH MONTH, regardless of rank.
  
  
  
  • 1 point = every event you attend in a month
    
    
    
    • An event is categorized as any gathering/competition that is organized by an event host.
      
      
      
      • You may only gain 1 point from entering a competition.
        
        
        
        • Other events that would get you your remaining 4 points are things like masses, minigames with clans, etc.  If you have a question about it let me know.
          
        
        
        
      
      
      
    
    
    
  • **RESTRICTED TO GENERALS AND CAPTAINS** - A Max of 3 points from Hosting an event
    
    
    
    • 2 points for an event you host in a month
      
      
      
      • All events must be OK’d by an Admin, Organiser, Deputy Owner or Owner
        
        
        
        • You can almost always find me/a high rank on our TeamSpeak (slayernest.typefrag.com, no password) and on Skype if you need to contact someone.
          
        
        
        
      
      
      
    • An extra point may be given based on retention of people after the event and length of the event
      
      
      
      • Ideally would be an event that went for an hour and retained 10-15 people.
        
      
      
      
    • Competitions will only net you 1 point.
      
    • You may ‘select’ which event you want to count for your 1 event.
      
    
    
    
  
  EX: HopalongJR hosts a skilling competition.  He’ll only get 1 point for this.  He decides to host a Kalphite King Mass the next day, and requests for that to be his event that counts towards his host points.
  So for example let’s say HopalongJR is a captain that hosts 1 Kalphite King Mass, Attends 4 other events, enrolled in a skilling competition, and gains 7.5M XP in a month, he gains 6 points for that month - 2 points from the KK mass, 3 remaining points for attending events, and 1 point from gaining XP, giving 6 total points.
  
  The mathematical formula to calculate it is as follows: Rounddown(Your Clan XP/7,500,000)+if(attendance+hosting pts > 5, then event pts =5, else event pts=attendance+hosting pts)=total points.
  
  Event points will be manually archived at the beginning of each month such that the points gained from event attendance are permanent.  As a disclaimer, this doesn’t mean that there will be 5+ events per month, meaning you may not get 5 event points per month due to people not hosting.  However, I do imagine that with this system events will be plentiful enough if you keep your eyes and ears open, and check SNOF every couple of days.
  
  How to lose points from inactivity:
  
  
  
  1. -30 points If you gain less than 500K XP in the last month and have not posted in the “Notice of Absence” forum or let us know in some way/shape/form.
     
  
  How to lose points from not attending events:
  
  
  
  1. -7 points if you do not attend an event within a particular month.
     
     
     
     • Again, events are categorized as any gathering/competition held by an event host.
       
     • Actively participating in skilling competitions fills this
       
     • I am open to excusing people from this, but in all honesty it should be easy enough to make it to an event within a month.
       
  
  
  

So here’s an example to cover all these conditions.  Let’s say HopalongJR is a captain in the clan with a total of 50 points currently from previous events, and XP.  For one month, he hosts a KK mass (+2), attends other events (+3, caps his event pts), competes in a skilling competition (+0 due to event pts being capped), and gains 7.5M XP in that month (+1).  He’s now at 56 points going into his next month.  
However, for some reason or another HopalongJR was swallowed by the abyss.  HopalongJR would lose points after the first month for not gaining over 500K xp (-30), and for not attending an event (-7).  He’s now at risk of sitting at 19 points, and demoted to Sergeant.  However, before the month is up the abyss decided that dog doesn’t taste too great and spits him back out just in time for him to log into SNOF and post in the “Notice of Absence” forum about his harrowing tale.  Hopalong sees his post and decides to excuse him, and his points (56) and rank (Captain) have been restored.

Here's the current Scoreboard:


Here's the whole live google docs version of the current ranks for you guys to see it in practice:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yUmQ8BdmGOz_RbJW8G4JtiR-9Wa4O1d32d5kn4pkY5E/edit?usp=sharing


TL;DR - Stop being lazy and read x

Looks good

I think this system looks great.
A way of giving recognition to members who are active & work hard - and bringing attention to those people to make it easier to see who might deserve admin! (which I think is right to still be awarded at discretion).
Looking forward to seeing this be rolled out, but I don't envy the people having to keep track of the points

Now that the little amendment about the management ranks is in place, this system looks good. The only sad part is that people with management ranks can't gain pretty general.

Should have a separate spreadsheet including everyone's stats just for fun.

EDIT: I need to read better before being a smartass.

Very thorough method..

Get cracking on those clan points!

RIP my rank

These are cosmetic ones, you still have yours

I like it looks good:)

Spreadsheet has been updated for the month of December.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yUmQ8BdmGOz_RbJW8G4JtiR-9Wa4O1d32d5kn4pkY5E/edit?usp=sharing

XP point deductions have taken place for those who were inactive during December. If you'd like to check who had points deducted, please refer to the "DECEMBER 2015 ARCHIVE" to see if there's any issues. If there is, please PM me on the Forums and I'll get to changing it ASAP.

Additionally, I have started to tally Event Points. If you'd like to see this, refer to the "JANUARY 2016 ARCHIVE" sheet. These will not take effect immediately, but come next month they will be added into your totals; THIS INCLUDES DEDUCTIONS FOR NOT BEING ACTIVE WITH EVENTS. There will be plenty of chances for people to earn event points throughout the month though at varying times, so don't worry too much. If your name is next to something like this: "1?" it means I've got a question for you, so the next time I see you (hopefully) I can clear something up.

Other than that, I encourage everyone to look at BOTH OF THESE THREADS and post if you're interested/have a question.

Ok I'm done.

The chat level is on level of 12 year olds. And getting ranks in chat to curse, troll eachother, flame bait, bring drama, don't follow the rules and don't contribute to the chat in anyway (apart from joking around with their off-site friends).
People getting random temp promoted by rank-friends and noone take care to demote them back (hello perma ranks??).

The whole ranking system collapsed because noone gave a damn thing about it. Was launched great, now noone interested to keep it simple.
Single spreedsheat would fix the problem. And maybe a requirement or two extra to get them juicy ranks.
Now we got Brews, Bud and company reflecting our chat.

I remember the day when ranks used to keep it simple and had everything under control.

I don't disapprove the personal jokes, but flame baiting with Weetsyboy, porn, spam, Merondonononononononon, retard, politics, religions, adult matters. Where there is no constructive discussion or feedback given (unless its who is my bitch or your hoe) is just plain bad monitoring.
It always results in conversation being between 2-4 people, where real questions would get trolled and unanswered.

Citadel manage is plain bad (was setting upkeep for last month or so), where no real ranks would cap (week prior to DXPW there was total of 17 ranks in chat (2CoOwners, 2Generals, 4Organisers, 3Captains, 2Admins and 5Liutenants) and only one of them cared enough to visit the citadel and capped.
If it wasnt for Olmara we would be missing Avatars again during this DXPW.
Then everyone jumps and snipes avatars.... I mean??

I contributed and voted for new ranking system, just so it could bring people together and maybe give them the feeling of affiliation(?).
I guess it was bad decision.

I want to petition for a way to remove inactivity points for members of the clan who weren't active when this system was implemented.

I don't find it fair that you don't even get punished for inactivity(if you let Josh know or post in the forums you don't get penalized for being inactive) but because I happened to be inactive when this was implemented, and I didn't tell Josh that I was taking a break (There was absolutely no reason to inform him as there was no penalties for being inactive and I STILL can't find an inactivity forum thread) I am being penalized half of my total experience gains in the clan and I am quite perturbed about it.

I'm perturbed for many reasons
A) There is no system in place to burn off inactivity points over time
B) Had I known about a clan ranking systems with penalties I could have easily gained 500k a month
C) I had no opportunity to inform someone of my inactivity as the rank system was implemented months after I wasn't playing
D) I have wanted rank ever since I joined this clan and before there was a rank system for members I never once complained about not having any shot at a rank, and thus also saw no reason to maintain activity or inform the leader I was going inactive.  Now that I am back I asked Josh even for a way to shave off inactivity points, as I feel shafted for being penalized for something I had no ability to prevent. I am getting the unfair end of the stick, and basically because Josh doesn't feel like accommodating a loyal clan member for literally no good reason (he gave me 3, all trash)
E) I went to our clan leader about this and he blew me off. He told me he could void the points but wouldn't. I asked him how I could earn them away and he told me how to not get more (which I clearly understand the rules as to how the points system works) and his reasoning for not doing it was it would be too much work to subtract the inactivity points from my total. This is very upsetting because it clearly feels like favoritism in this clan. I would put money on it Josh has removed inactivity points for others but won't for me because apparently my off brand scooter don't cut it.
I'm asking for the same opportunity everyone else got, to have a fresh start going into the clan rank system but Josh won't give it to me after one conversation so I want to have another, involving the clan.
F) MY RANK WITHOUT INACTIVTY POINTS WOULDN'T HURT ANYBODY, OR EVEN GIVE ME ANY TYPE OF ADVANTAGE OVER ANYBODY.  All it would do is take out the hockey stick y'all shoved sideways up my bum by shafting me with 28 or w/e inactivity points and throttling my rank and gains, with no way to have them removed and a clan leader telling me he could but won't, and not offering any constructive way to resolve a legitimate concern I have, as probably one of the only people who happened to be away when this rank system was implemented.
Meanwhile, we have whales that are lieutenant for spending mad stacks but my years of loyalty get me a slap in the face by the clan leader when trying to address this.

P.s----To Josh
Also, I would like to know how many people in our clan have inactivity points and how many people have had them removed, Thank you.

Hey Skyl, I know we spoke about this a bit on TeamSpeak a few weeks back, thanks for posting this so I get a better idea of what you want.  I have said

skylston wrote:

I don't find it fair that you don't even get punished for inactivity(if you let Josh know or post in the forums you don't get penalized for being inactive) but because I happened to be inactive when this was implemented, and I didn't tell Josh that I was taking a break (There was absolutely no reason to inform him as there was no penalties for being inactive and I STILL can't find an inactivity forum thread) I am being penalized half of my total experience gains in the clan and I am quite perturbed about it.

First off, this forum has existed since 2009.  If you are not signed in or are not a part of the "Members" group, then you can't see anything in the Interclan subforum.  That's on you for not having a Forum account until now.  Regardless, now you know what's what with that.

As for the fairness in punishing your inactivity when you didn't know you would get punished for it, here's why it is:
1.  These points do not influence chances of rank ups from non-rank (Corporal to General in clan) to Lieutenant (Admin in the clan).
2.  Exceptions are made as long as I'm given some sort of prior notice and they carry some amount of weight to them (I.E. Sherif posted that he'd be gone for a bit, Djcbas told me he was traveling around Asia, etc).  Your only reason you've given me so far was that you didn't know that you'd be punished for it, because you had no knowledge of this system being implemented.  This is not because you were indisposed and couldn't actually access the game or had other major reasons for it (family matters, school, work, etc.) but because you just didn't know.  Later on you reaffirmed this saying that:

skylston wrote:

B) Had I known about a clan ranking systems with penalties I could have easily gained 500k a month

There was a 14 day grace period and a forum post that is on literally every subforum on this site.  Short of PMing everyone in the Member group on these forums (of which, you weren't even one until late March this year, 3 months after the system was put in place), I and the Generals have done everything we can to notify all members about these ranks.  I'm sorry, but the onus is on you to check all official channels for information like this.
3.  The ranks are simply "cosmetic" and used only to stratify and highlight our most active clanmates.  If you're not active, then you're not active and the system will pick that up.  As stated above exceptions have been made, but one will not be made for you.  I understand you want to be distinguished for your years in the clan, but this system was purely made to highlight our active clan base and to incentivize people to remain active.  No more no less.

Given that 1 (no influence on rank-up potential), 2 (exceptions being given based on reasoning), and 3 (the ranks do not have any permissions tied to them, and are meant to show our most active clanmates) are true, the fairness of the system is out of the question.

As far as the numbers go though, here's yours Skyl:  You were docked a total of 31 points for inactivity (both events and XP).  If we equate that straight to XP, that's 232.5M XP worth of points.  I understand that's a lot, but what I'd like to point out is that you may get a maximum of 5 event points per month.  This actually drastically increases the amount of points a normal player can get per month.  For example, if you go to 5 events and gain the minimum amount of XP required to avoid being inactive, you would recover in a little over 6 months.  However I assume most active players are competent enough to gain ~7.5M-15M XP per month (2 XP points worth), so it's more like 4.5-5 months, give or take.  These numbers are rough no doubt, but one thing you need to take into account is the player themselves.  At the rate you are going, assuming you go to about 3-4 events per month and you resume your average of 2M XP per day (this is your average since 2/27/16, when you came back according to Runeclan), you recover all 31 points you lost about 3 months after the day you came back.  That means by the end of May you should, more or less, have the same amount of points you were at before you got hit with the deductions.  Those are just the numbers and a 1:3 ratio of months inactive to months active isn't actually that bad in my view (an appropriate range is between 1:2 and 1:3 to incentivize activity) because it makes the spreadsheet move quickly when people are not active, and it also heavily incentivizes people to continue to log in (if they care about the ranks of course).  Sure this point can be argued differently but frankly I am happy with the amount of work you've put in for how much you were docked.  This flows into your next point:

skylston wrote:

A) There is no system in place to burn off inactivity points over time

What you're suggesting would significantly increase the amount of time needed to spend on the sheet, so I'm 95% sure that this wouldn't be feasible.

skylston wrote:

B) Had I known about a clan ranking systems with penalties I could have easily gained 500k a month
C) I had no opportunity to inform someone of my inactivity as the rank system was implemented months after I wasn't playing

You made no attempt to inform anyone of the inactivity as you didn't check the forums or register for the forums until recently, so these two kinda counter each other out.

skylston wrote:

D) I have wanted rank ever since I joined this clan

Then work for it while the system is in place buddy.

skylston wrote:

I never once complained about not having any shot at a rank, and thus also saw no reason to maintain activity or inform the leader I was going inactive

And also saw no reason to look out for an opportunity to get a rank while I was inactive, but once it comes around and it's not exactly in my favor it's unfair.  C'mon man...

skylston wrote:

Now that I am back I asked Josh even for a way to shave off inactivity points, as I feel shafted for being penalized for something I had no ability to prevent.

You said in the previous statement that you saw no reason to maintain activity or inform me, literally saying you did have a choice to prevent it, but chose not to.

skylston wrote:

I am getting the unfair end of the stick, and basically because Josh doesn't feel like accommodating a loyal clan member for literally no good reason (he gave me 3, all trash)

I assume the 3 you're referring to is your Event additions, which you have earned for your participation in events and I have not just haphazardly given to you.  If you would like them to be removed because they're all trash (and not a main source of actually gaining your points back) let me know and I'll sort it out for you.  A wise man once said do not bite the hand that feeds you, and I'd impart this wisdom unto you here as well.  Regardless, read up more on Event Additions and maybe revisit this for more discussion.  As was established above it was fair, and I'm not accommodating you because you literally said you could have done it, but just chose not to and ceased communication entirely with us.  So yea, I'm not going to accommodate you just because you're loyal or have been in the clan for X amount of years.  Sorry.

skylston wrote:

E) I went to our clan leader about this and he blew me off. He told me he could void the points but wouldn't.

As explained above I saw no reason to nor currently see any reason to void the deduction, as it was fair.

skylston wrote:

This is very upsetting because it clearly feels like favoritism in this clan.

It's actually the opposite.

skylston wrote:

I would put money on it Josh has removed inactivity points for others but won't for me

I would if you did it through the avenues and with prior notice like the others did.

skylston wrote:

because apparently my off brand scooter don't cut it.

I went to an ivy league skate park.  I'm highly trained at scootering.  I know scooters.  I have the best scooters.  But there's no better scooter than my Razor.

skylston wrote:

I'm asking for the same opportunity everyone else got, to have a fresh start going into the clan rank system but Josh won't give it to me after one conversation so I want to have another, involving the clan.

You started at 0 points when you came back.  That's as fresh a start as can be lol.

skylston wrote:

P.s----To Josh
Also, I would like to know how many people in our clan have inactivity points and how many people have had them removed, Thank you.

How many people in our clan have inactivity deductions: 189
How many people have had them cleared in a retroactive manner: 1, and there was sufficient reason to do so.

Honestly, all you've posted here skyl is that you're unhappy you ended up on the wrong side of the stick, but you're not really suggesting anything to help change that going forward.  I'll look into changing the deduction down towards 15-20 instead of 30 per month, but this would not be retroactive should it be put in place.  Refunding points will not be possible, and as far as I'm concerned, unless you have a specific suggestion for how it should be amended (just saying there should be a way for me to get points back isn't good enough; actually lay out a concrete explanation/example of it and I can tell you if I can make it happen or not) the system seems fine.

Hopalong wrote:

Exceptions are made as long as I'm given some sort of prior notice and they carry some amount of weight to them (I.E. Sherif posted that he'd be gone for a bit, Djcbas told me he was traveling around Asia, etc).  Your only reason you've given me so far was that you didn't know that you'd be punished for it, because you had no knowledge of this system being implemented.  This is not because you were indisposed and couldn't actually access the game or had other major reasons for it (family matters, school, work, etc.) but because you just didn't know.

If I had told you when I decided to quit you wouldn't have even logged it as there was no reason to keep log of activity for non-ranks and being there wasn't a reason to tell you I didn't. It would be like going to the store to tell the cashier you already have milk at home. And just because I didn't inform you doesn't mean I didn't start working 40-60 hours a week and moved from Indiana to Illinois to Arizona and was very busy so I decided to stop playing. I stopped playing entirely because I was busy but there was also no clan penalty for quitting and no requirement to inform you. Could I have? Yes. Would it have been unnecessary and try hard as an un-ranked? Yes. And even though I was busy, maintaining 500k a month wouldn't have been a problem.

You keep making it sound like I had a way to prevent these activity points but I'm trying to make it clear to you that I can follow rules and had there been rules in place when I quit we wouldn't be having this discussion. I left at a time when there was no punishments and when I came back I'm being punished for quitting then, back when it wasn't a problem to quit. And I came to you asking for either a way to shave the points or to void them as I do feel it is a little unfair to not have some type of grandfathering plan in place for someone who did have no way of knowing I would be getting penalized , over an entirely cosmetic thing nonetheless.

hopalong wrote:

What you're suggesting would significantly increase the amount of time needed to spend on the sheet, so I'm 95% sure that this wouldn't be feasible
Refunding points will not be possible, and as far as I'm concerned, unless you have a specific suggestion for how it should be amended (just saying there should be a way for me to get points back isn't good enough; actually lay out a concrete explanation/example of it and I can tell you if I can make it happen or not) the system seems fine.

Kind of a contradiction here. See, I could offer suggestions, Like 5 points removed for each month with 4 xp points and 4 event points, or 1 inactivity point removed for every 2 xp points gained, but you admitted you won't take on something that requires more effort.

I'm not asking for a second chance even, I'm just asking for the chance to not be penalized in a system I didn't know about. Now that I'm back and aware of the rules there will be no issues following them and you won't hear me asking for exceptions if I get penalized for not following them.

But You're docking me excessively for something I legitimately didn't know about and was unable to prevent, and I'm asking for consideration on that point. If it's just a cosmetic thing that is supposed to show activity and gains then why is it so unfair to the rest of the clan to allow me the same start in the rank system as those who learned about it when it came out?

Look at when the post was last edited, look at when you went inactive. The rules weren't changed on you, you just didn't know. It's only 30 points.

conc blast wrote:

Look at when the post was last edited, look at when you went inactive. The rules weren't changed on you, you just didn't know. It's only 30 points.

I went inactive well before the clan rank system went into place. The rules didn't exist until after I was already inactive.  And its 30 points I wouldn't have against me had I known about the rules. That's my point.
And it's not just 30 points, its 280m experience I'm being throttled what I earned in this clan.
The clan system is supposed to incentivize activity and had it existed when I quit it would have worked to keep me at 500k/month.  But it didn't and there were no consequences for being inactive. Whether Josh will admit it or not, I'm being penalized for something I didn't know about and am simply asking for consideration on that part. Those 30 points are points I would not have against me had this been in place since I joined the clan. And it is a hefty penalty. I would be better off with starting me at 0 clan exp since I came back in late Feb. versus when I joined the clan and having these points against me.

I don't particularly want to get involved, but I do have a few words to say.
The ranking system is there in order to demonstrate activity. I understand that the recognition of your contribution to the clan obviously means something to you but the icon next to your name is purely cosmetic. It hasn't taken your clan XP away. Look at 'Im A Lemur' - he has had points deducted for being inactive and is now a Captain despite his 1.2b clan XP. It does not make your past contribution any less valid. The ranking shows us, without bias, who has been active and who has not. I know that if you had been aware of the system you would have made an effort, but the fact of the matter is that you were not playing and the point deduction reflects that. (sidenote: I believe for a much longer time than the system has been in place?)
Your words to Josh have, it seems, made him think over the amount of points that are deducted and this may be reduced - perhaps take some solace in that.

Points updated again.  I've reduced the amount of points lost per month for inactivity from 30 to 10, and events from 7 to 3.  The 30 and 7 were meant to weed people out at the beginning if they had a large amount of XP Points but were inactive.  I'll be monitoring how this affects the scoreboard, but as is it looks to hold up fairly well.

Hey when was the last update?

Conc Blast wrote:

Hey when was the last update?

I keep getting ranked up only to be deranked again. Please rectify.

Updated a bunch of ranks in game.

Updated a bunch of ranks in game

Motion to count the Raid team as an event. Also Geoff's a legend.

updated some ranks in game. will start doing this at the end/beginning of every month to keep things more up to date.

Updated ranks in game. Used our current exp doc and the new pvm point doc.

Updated ranks in-game.